October 2011
44 posts
How can one tell what they are for sure? I get mostly INTJ but in the past I have also gotten ISTJ and INTP.
Look at ze cognitive functions. Ni: “Attracted to symbolic actions or devices, Ni synthesizes seeming paradoxes to create the previously unimagined. These realizations come with a certainty that demands action to fulfill a new vision of the future, solutions that may include complex systems or universal truths.” Si: “Si collects data in the present moment and compares it with past experiences, a process that sometimes evokes the feelings associated with memory, as if the subject were reliving it. Seeking to protect what is familiar, Si draws upon history to form goals and expectations about what will happen in the future. Using Si, ISTJs thrive on deep analysis of their surroundings.”
I’ve seen it as connections (Ni) vs data (Si). Google around for more info. You might try doing a cognitive functions profile (http://www.keys2cognition.com/explore.htm) rather than a mbti. Try to focus on how you do things rather than the personality bits.
My guy is an INTP but, he loves shipping products. He is super focused on making his ideas real. Most of the cliche personality bits on INTPs tell you how they never finish things.
I think one or more of your INTJs may actually be ISTJs, because you're describing Si sometimes, rather than Ni. Si would have an "idea map" or have "mental flowcharts" whereas Ni would prefer a more vague vector towards a goal. With this in mind, your thoughts on these I_TJs?
An idea map is just a way of collecting things—as he ties together a bunch of connections, making a large pattern it’s usually very Ni. That friend, Ben is a pretty hard N, so I can’t picture him as an ISTJ, and he tests as an INTJ.
[Really doesn’t matter, I can treat him like an INTJ and get good results. I wouldn’t care if he were secretly an ISFJ (though I would be sooo confused).]
I’ve found with ISTJs I usually have more direct conversations about emotions. They are usually more comfortable with me Fe’ing at them, which is odd. I guess because emotion is a real thing they can see and experience, whereas when I go Ni it can be very abstract. With INTJs I usually have more nonlinear conversations—though we both follow as we make different hops. I haven’t met an INTJ I couldn’t explain the conceptually knowledge I have through patterns. Most ISTJs give me a blank look when I start going off. Though, I guess when listening to either there is a fair bit of overlap, extraverted thinking and all.
I did know an ISTJ that was close on the N/S line and said he was an INTJ originally. Then I asked for his help with my portfolio. I got a spreadsheet back with all my spelling & grammatical errors with explanations for why. At first glance it was easy to type him either way, but I found I couldn’t have deep Ni conversations with him.
ohhh. hm, but would that have something to do with eyesight? I ask this because I know an Se dominant whose eyesight has recently been failing and I just think that makes it even harder for that person to function than maybe a Ni dominant?
Not really. What you notice can be different from what you see. Se doms are aware of their surroundings. As a Ni-dom even though I see everything I don’t always notice it. I know an ENFJ (tertiary of Se, which is one he really leans on) with glasses, he has pretty good vision but, he complains about it like he’s near blind. I can imagine a Se dominant would be much more aware of any change in their vision or hearing.
wait what do you mean by if it's "visually" off it's off? like if it looks funny something's wrong with it? how is that different from noticing something is off in general? I guess this question is worded funny, but for example like, if you're looking at a hanging picture and you think it looks funny and you realize it's because it's crooked, how would you realize otherwise?
Usually in the case of images he would spot fuzzy edges that should have been sharp / other artifacts (things that got left there and shouldn’t have been). Having a single pixel that is gray when it should be nonexistent on a small screen is something I have to focus to notice. I noticed Se-users (like ISTPs) can spot something is off without taking time to find the reason. Se can sometimes just spot immediate visual red flags / immediate surrounding (sense) red flags without necessarily drilling the data back to the reason something is off.
Noticing that the picture frame is off because it’s crooked could come from anywhere—but often it’s Si (introverted sensing) of comparing and contrasting how it looks today with how it looked in the past.
I'm an INTJ, and my last romantic involvement was an ENFJ, it ended badly and it was bad throughout most of the relationship. Now I am dating an ISTP, we get along really well and we have so much in common. I thought that N's went well together in general, why was it we had such drastically different viewpoints on life? I also thought P's and J's didn't go well together, cause J's are so organized and P's are so spontaneous. Any thoughts on the ENFJ/INTJ or ISTP/INTJ combinations?
Today’s comic was inspired by your question! For NFJs, the inability of NTJs to extravert their feelings (Fe) sometimes like they don’t care enough to try. For NTJ & NFJ to work maturity is needed on both sides.
It’s fun going out with Ps, because they’re good at generating options. Many like having a J to make fast decisions. P dating P can mean things don’t get done. J dating J can be a power struggle.
ISTP & INFJ? Introverted thinking & extraverted thinking can compliment each other well. And as it’s Ti-Se, there’s the desire to make it real. You can Ni-Te talk ideas with someone driven to make things. Ni dominates can get caught up talking ideas and not doing.
I'm 17, and a complete and utter ENFP. Even though I get a natural high off being around people, I'm so antisocial and private outside of school. This year has been especially stressful for me, as I near the age where I have to choose university majors/careers, and I haven't really had the energy to go out to parties and meet friends, etc. Do you think there might be a way to lessen the time I want/need to spend alone? Or could this lack of energy just be because I've put on more weight lately?
College, careers path, that’s some pretty scary rather STJ paperwork you have ahead of you. The application process is focused on doing a lot of things that are out of your comfort zone, that’s stressful. Additionally, Your teen years are when you’re rocking your auxiliary function, for you that’s Introverted Feeling. Meaning, you need to have more alone time than you’ve needed in the past.
I asked the wisest ENFP I know about this, her advice ran along these lines: you don’t need a ton of friends, you need one friend or one person you can grow into a friend (for her the person is an INFP). She also had a suggestion for making the college stuff easier, go and visit 5 colleges. Start with the one you like the most. If you can fall in love with a college all the STJ stuff will become easy.
Gaining weight can lead to loss in energy and depression. I don’t know if it was a change in diet, activity level or physiology that put you there, however getting involved with a sport might help you with both things. Physical activity / working out will increase your energy level, and if there’s a way you can use that to meet new people that might be exactly what you want.
<3 Good luck!
I (ENFP) wanted to ask about this rivalry I feel towards an INFJ ex-friend. I used to respect her, but she confessed to my ENTP boyfriend and didn't distance herself even whe she said she would; after that I just couldn't anymore. I trust my bf completely, so it isn't insecurity, but I started developing some kind of rivalry, since I get annoyed when we seem to share the same feelings or dreams or ideals. We're both internet people, so I get to see a lot of her stuff around. What do you think?
Having a completely different set of tools (cognitive functions) and having no communication styles in common, makes for difficult friendships. So, the question is: what do you want?
I assume you really just wish she would disappear. That’s clearly not going to happen. If you want to stop feeling this rivalry/annoyance at her then you need to frame things in a different light. As NFs, you are idealists, you share core motivations, and yet how you get there might be very different. Don’t undervalue that you two do on some level want the same things.
So, accepting that you’re a lot alike and yet very different how do you take seeing her stuff pop up? Another question is, why does it annoy you? What potential gain do you have from a rivalry? Is it just a drive to be better than her? Yes, she’s probably hurt you with her actions. She has also hurt herself (not that being emotionally self-destructive is any kind of excuse, she’s hurt you more than herself). She probably doesn’t have the maturity to yet to think to apologize. Which is no slight on her, it’s a hard thing to do. It’s even harder to apologize when you know you are genuinely in the wrong. If you want be friends with her a very direct email / correspondence explaining how you feel. That’s how you compel INFJs to be emotionally genuine, is to be emotionally genuine yourself.
You can even frame emotions from a distanced thinker pointer of view and we’ll still see the emotion there. As long as what you write is honest. As an EP you must be 100x more direct than you think you need to be with an IJ. Option #2 every time you agree with her stuff, focus on the values you share and consider that you might be able to be friends with her in five years. Consider, “well, right now we can’t stand each other but, we do value the same things. When we’re a bit older it will be easier to focus on the share values.” It’s hard to navigate emotions when you’re both figuring things out.
(Note: there’s a chance she’s super manipulative, I would need more data to untangle that. I like thinking the best of people.)
Tomorrow’s doodle will go into some differences between the two types!
I adore ENFPs. I’ve never met an ENFP that I disliked (I’m sure those are out there, my sample size isn’t huge). I’ve found that sometimes my Fe directness can come off as insulting, or they can think that because they did something that upset me that I want to cut off ties. I want to be able to express (Fe) when I’m upset, but I always want to maintain friendships. I have two ENFPs consistently in my life, I am better for having the two of them. It is sometimes a rough road; I wouldn’t be surprised if I owed either or both of them an apology for trampling them. (Eeee, I’m sorry I don’t mean to trample!)
To be friends ENFPs & INFJs must be willing to talk things out.
Do you know anything about type relationships at all? Just curious, if you'd be comfortable giving advice, you seem pretty knowledgeable.
Am I correct in assuming romantic relationships?
I adore trying to solve emotional problems/help people out. I know what I’ve experienced and have in an understanding based on cognitive functions. I spent a bit of time chasing after the ideal relationship. Which was a “question” I was trying to solve. The last four years, I’ve spent half my time in relationships, half my time out and reflecting on them.
The more data you give me the better advice I can give. More personal info I will keep to a PM, because that can be rough. More general questions I would probably answer openly. My advice is that of a person’s it might be good, it might be bad. My intent is always to try and help.
I just wanted to make sure you were fully aware of how awesome this project is. This is awesome. You're awesome. It's all awesome. Keep at it!
<3 thank you! One of my dearest INTJ friends told me I need water, food and compliments to survive. She’s good at doing that, in an INTJ-stating-an-obvious-fact way.
You guys are an adorable bunch of followers! I’m a bit behind on a couple answers because, I’m turning some of them into doodle form ;D
Are your type characters based on real people you know of that type? If so, does that mean the INFJ character is you? I hate to pry or anything, but its something I've always wondered.
Yes, all of the type characters are people I know. Indeed it does! Don’t worry about prying. And I try to be as emotionally honest as I can which is why it has to come from my viewpoint. ( And thanks for reblogging & following! <3 )
Not a question, just a message. Anyways, I feel really awkward reading your info, so awkward it felt right so I started to follow you. I'm an INFJ to the core, I thought it was stupid but you had me at that small paragraph.
<3 you anon! Thanks for the follow! INFJs feeling awkward, ftw. (I can’t watch anything that does humor by embarrassing people I empathize waaay too strongly.)
in your opinion, is depression common in infj's? ive been suffering for a couple years now and it seems to be partially based on my deep morals and the fact that i care too much. i read somewhere that infj's often feel doomed to live a quiet life of seclusion.
In my life I’ve known 3 other INFJs reasonably well. (Totaling for 2 men and 2 women.) I’m positive all dealt with depression at one time or another. One of the guys represses himself a lot. The other represses himself less but, does struggle with depression more. The female friend had a very dark period in her life. I’ve had high highs and low lows. So, yes, I think it’s common.
I did a quick google and found this and this interesting. I had heard that INFPs have the highest rate of depression. I think INFs have trouble for a lot of the same reasons.
I have found it’s important to have a circle of people you can rely on. I have 3 people in my life that I know I could call crying at 4am. (Introvert amusingly, none of my friends hang out together, I just hang out with them one-on-one.) During times of stress I disconnect from emotionally deep relationships and do more surface level interactions. I don’t think INFJs are doomed to live a quiet life of seclusion, I think they can feel that way sometimes. It’s okay to experience the angst, to live through the emotion. It’s important in a lot of ways, to be willing to experience rather than repress. Just make sure you don’t live there forever.
